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	<title>Comments on: Your thoughts: performance enhancing drugs</title>
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	<description>gubernatrix</description>
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		<title>By: Amelia Gray</title>
		<link>http://gubernatrix.co.uk/2009/08/performance-enhancing-drugs/comment-page-1/#comment-25007</link>
		<dc:creator>Amelia Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 May 2010 21:59:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gubernatrix.co.uk/?p=748#comment-25007</guid>
		<description>I use Whey protein a lot before and after my bodybuilding routines. Whey helps a lot in building muscles.;&#039;&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I use Whey protein a lot before and after my bodybuilding routines. Whey helps a lot in building muscles.;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Rolfe</title>
		<link>http://gubernatrix.co.uk/2009/08/performance-enhancing-drugs/comment-page-1/#comment-9078</link>
		<dc:creator>Rolfe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gubernatrix.co.uk/?p=748#comment-9078</guid>
		<description>I agree fully with Ron that it is all about where we draw the line.

IOCs guidelines and rules are in line with WADA. WADA decides what is appropriate or not and they removed caffeine from the 2009 list (but caffeine is still on the monitored list). It seems pretty simple to me.

To me the WADA guidelines and rules are what defines the playing field in the practical sense. In the moral sense we all know pretty well when we are eating snake oil. If we choose to eat in a way that will increase hormone levels, we know that we better not take that approach too far or we will bust the limitations set by WADA. I have read the work by Rob Faigin, but I choose to take the simple approach and accept that WADA is defining the playing field. 
Eating plans are neccesary to perform at the top level but need to be adapted to the athlete. I have no issue with eating plans to stay healthy and to recover as well as possible. Still need to watch the hormone levels though.
I also set the limit on popping pills to vitamins. If an athlete have a cold or a headache, she better know what is on the WADA list at the moment. Anything outside that and they are taking calculated risks. Needles are way out of scope, as is pills to help you recover faster etc. Athletes er well educated on the science of eating and what to eat so they know well what they are doing. Long term damage from &quot;innocent&quot; or &quot;harmless natural supplements&quot; have been documented in lots of cases. 

I think WADAs approach of monitoring athletes levels of hormones and &quot;whatsit&quot; is a strong strategy. If something in the body chemistry of the athlete spikes, they are on top of it. I shudder when thinking about the privacy implications..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree fully with Ron that it is all about where we draw the line.</p>
<p>IOCs guidelines and rules are in line with WADA. WADA decides what is appropriate or not and they removed caffeine from the 2009 list (but caffeine is still on the monitored list). It seems pretty simple to me.</p>
<p>To me the WADA guidelines and rules are what defines the playing field in the practical sense. In the moral sense we all know pretty well when we are eating snake oil. If we choose to eat in a way that will increase hormone levels, we know that we better not take that approach too far or we will bust the limitations set by WADA. I have read the work by Rob Faigin, but I choose to take the simple approach and accept that WADA is defining the playing field.<br />
Eating plans are neccesary to perform at the top level but need to be adapted to the athlete. I have no issue with eating plans to stay healthy and to recover as well as possible. Still need to watch the hormone levels though.<br />
I also set the limit on popping pills to vitamins. If an athlete have a cold or a headache, she better know what is on the WADA list at the moment. Anything outside that and they are taking calculated risks. Needles are way out of scope, as is pills to help you recover faster etc. Athletes er well educated on the science of eating and what to eat so they know well what they are doing. Long term damage from &#8220;innocent&#8221; or &#8220;harmless natural supplements&#8221; have been documented in lots of cases. </p>
<p>I think WADAs approach of monitoring athletes levels of hormones and &#8220;whatsit&#8221; is a strong strategy. If something in the body chemistry of the athlete spikes, they are on top of it. I shudder when thinking about the privacy implications..</p>
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		<title>By: gubernatrix</title>
		<link>http://gubernatrix.co.uk/2009/08/performance-enhancing-drugs/comment-page-1/#comment-9073</link>
		<dc:creator>gubernatrix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gubernatrix.co.uk/?p=748#comment-9073</guid>
		<description>You introduce some interesting thoughts, Ron (nice to hear from you again, by the way!). The testosterone issue is particularly apposite given the current controversy surrounding Caster Semenya&#039;s (apparently) unusually high testosterone levels and the accusation, not that she is taking drugs, but that she might not be &#039;female&#039; from a medical perspective. (see http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/8219937.stm)

And a quote from Mark Rippetoe based on the fact that men have 10 times more testosterone than women: &quot;Testosterone produces a more robust strength-enhancing response, and that is why testosterone and its analogues are often used by athletes to enhance training. Gentlemen, I suppose this means that we are cheating.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You introduce some interesting thoughts, Ron (nice to hear from you again, by the way!). The testosterone issue is particularly apposite given the current controversy surrounding Caster Semenya&#8217;s (apparently) unusually high testosterone levels and the accusation, not that she is taking drugs, but that she might not be &#8216;female&#8217; from a medical perspective. (see <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/8219937.stm)" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/8219937.stm)</a></p>
<p>And a quote from Mark Rippetoe based on the fact that men have 10 times more testosterone than women: &#8220;Testosterone produces a more robust strength-enhancing response, and that is why testosterone and its analogues are often used by athletes to enhance training. Gentlemen, I suppose this means that we are cheating.”</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://gubernatrix.co.uk/2009/08/performance-enhancing-drugs/comment-page-1/#comment-9072</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gubernatrix.co.uk/?p=748#comment-9072</guid>
		<description>This is a good discussion!   

There&#039;s quite a spectrum of what I&#039;d consider &quot;drug use&quot; and I don&#039;t think it&#039;s quite as black and white as it might appear to be.   I’m not going to take a stand one way or another but suggest the “drug use” line may be a little bit trickier to define than it might seem.  And getting to a level playing field may be more difficult than it would appear as well.

On one end of the spectrum we&#039;ve got Bob who is injecting 1 gram of test a week, IGF, HGH, insulin, and probably many other things along with an optimized diet.  One the other end of the spectrum we&#039;ve got Steve who knows nothing about food, diet, rest, and nutrition and is working out hard—someone who gets maybe 30 grams of protein a day and eats poorly.

Somewhere in the middle of the “drug use” spectrum are the following:

Users of caffeine (coffee, tea, red bull, etc.)  Caffeine is a drug.  Do you grab a cup before hitting the gym?   Hmmm...yet I think IOC bans caffeine in all forms, yes?

Users of protein supplements.   Is it &quot;natural&quot; to ingest highly concentrated protein food products, whey fractions, etc.?   These are manufactured products--they&#039;re not by true definition &quot;natural&quot;.  But, I&#039;ll bet every &quot;natural&quot; athlete worth their salt uses them.   No bans on this, right, yet it&#039;s not natural in the purest sense.

Users of post workout hydrolyzed protein/glucose/glucose polymer drinks.  This causes an insulin spike, pushes aminos into muscle, helps recovery.  It&#039;s the poor man&#039;s way to use insulin.   Is this natural?

Herbal supplements....natural, yes, can they improve performance?  Possibly...some seem to increase the amount of free testosterone.   Herbs are food--or are they?

Programmed dieting.   Food really is in a sense a drug delivery system....Diet optimization is a way to manage fatigue and induce max recovery.   Is maximizing knowledge in this area to advantage fair?  Natural?

High altitude training.   This increases the ability of the blood to carry oxygen (something drugs can provide as well at even higher levels).  But this IS a form of manipulation…is it natural?

Ammonia salts in powerlifting...natural?

Bench shirts and squat suits...natural?

In some ways I think we&#039;re just debating where to draw the line.  I doubt many of us think of that cup of coffee or energy drink is “cheating” yet the IOC would see it that way.  Where do you draw the line?   The extremes are easy pickings I think—the points along the spectrum are much more difficult to draw a conclusion about…at least for me.

Other things to consider:

Natural testosterone (the grand daddy of all steroids and one that men and women produce naturally) levels vary significantly in individuals (the “normal range” can vary by a magnitude of 3-4).  Those with higher natural levels have greater recovery capacity, strength, muscle mass, recovery,  etc.  

Let&#039;s say there are no drugs—then does the guy or gal with the highest level has an &quot;unfair advantage” over another athlete of the same exact talent and skill (or so it might seem from one perspective).  Is it fair that some guy is, compared to another guy, juicing like crazy out of his own system?    

Should we insist that all athletes take “leveling drugs” to ensure the same levels of testosterone, GH, and other endogenous (natural body created) compounds?   That would level the playing field and put more emphasis on “talent, skill, and determination”.  

Genetics play a role as well.  Not everyone who takes steroids becomes &quot;the hulk&quot;. Genetic affinity and receptors vary--many top athletes have reportedly taken very small steroid dosages with extreme effects.   By the same extension they’re going to get a bigger bang for the buck on what they produce naturally as well.  Why?  Because some folks have more receptors for these compounds and a small amount yields big results.  If you’ve got the genes, and high natural levels, that&#039;s an advantage without adding drugs over those with lesser amounts.  

Leveling the playing field by reducing the influence of drugs seems to be the goal for many posters.  But where do you stop in trying to level the playing field?     

But even without drugs the field may not be as level as we’d like to think.    It misses part of the picture to think that in a perfect world without performance enhancing drugs talent, skill, dedication, and training are the only factors determining performance.   Drugs, whether natural or injected/taken play a significant role in sports performance and always will as will variations in genetics.   

How far do we want to go to “level the playing field”?  Clearly, the extreme is easy to single out and take to task.  But if we examine what appears to be the goal--the level playing field untainted by any kind of drugs--the issue becomes a bit more complex.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a good discussion!   </p>
<p>There&#8217;s quite a spectrum of what I&#8217;d consider &#8220;drug use&#8221; and I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s quite as black and white as it might appear to be.   I’m not going to take a stand one way or another but suggest the “drug use” line may be a little bit trickier to define than it might seem.  And getting to a level playing field may be more difficult than it would appear as well.</p>
<p>On one end of the spectrum we&#8217;ve got Bob who is injecting 1 gram of test a week, IGF, HGH, insulin, and probably many other things along with an optimized diet.  One the other end of the spectrum we&#8217;ve got Steve who knows nothing about food, diet, rest, and nutrition and is working out hard—someone who gets maybe 30 grams of protein a day and eats poorly.</p>
<p>Somewhere in the middle of the “drug use” spectrum are the following:</p>
<p>Users of caffeine (coffee, tea, red bull, etc.)  Caffeine is a drug.  Do you grab a cup before hitting the gym?   Hmmm&#8230;yet I think IOC bans caffeine in all forms, yes?</p>
<p>Users of protein supplements.   Is it &#8220;natural&#8221; to ingest highly concentrated protein food products, whey fractions, etc.?   These are manufactured products&#8211;they&#8217;re not by true definition &#8220;natural&#8221;.  But, I&#8217;ll bet every &#8220;natural&#8221; athlete worth their salt uses them.   No bans on this, right, yet it&#8217;s not natural in the purest sense.</p>
<p>Users of post workout hydrolyzed protein/glucose/glucose polymer drinks.  This causes an insulin spike, pushes aminos into muscle, helps recovery.  It&#8217;s the poor man&#8217;s way to use insulin.   Is this natural?</p>
<p>Herbal supplements&#8230;.natural, yes, can they improve performance?  Possibly&#8230;some seem to increase the amount of free testosterone.   Herbs are food&#8211;or are they?</p>
<p>Programmed dieting.   Food really is in a sense a drug delivery system&#8230;.Diet optimization is a way to manage fatigue and induce max recovery.   Is maximizing knowledge in this area to advantage fair?  Natural?</p>
<p>High altitude training.   This increases the ability of the blood to carry oxygen (something drugs can provide as well at even higher levels).  But this IS a form of manipulation…is it natural?</p>
<p>Ammonia salts in powerlifting&#8230;natural?</p>
<p>Bench shirts and squat suits&#8230;natural?</p>
<p>In some ways I think we&#8217;re just debating where to draw the line.  I doubt many of us think of that cup of coffee or energy drink is “cheating” yet the IOC would see it that way.  Where do you draw the line?   The extremes are easy pickings I think—the points along the spectrum are much more difficult to draw a conclusion about…at least for me.</p>
<p>Other things to consider:</p>
<p>Natural testosterone (the grand daddy of all steroids and one that men and women produce naturally) levels vary significantly in individuals (the “normal range” can vary by a magnitude of 3-4).  Those with higher natural levels have greater recovery capacity, strength, muscle mass, recovery,  etc.  </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s say there are no drugs—then does the guy or gal with the highest level has an &#8220;unfair advantage” over another athlete of the same exact talent and skill (or so it might seem from one perspective).  Is it fair that some guy is, compared to another guy, juicing like crazy out of his own system?    </p>
<p>Should we insist that all athletes take “leveling drugs” to ensure the same levels of testosterone, GH, and other endogenous (natural body created) compounds?   That would level the playing field and put more emphasis on “talent, skill, and determination”.  </p>
<p>Genetics play a role as well.  Not everyone who takes steroids becomes &#8220;the hulk&#8221;. Genetic affinity and receptors vary&#8211;many top athletes have reportedly taken very small steroid dosages with extreme effects.   By the same extension they’re going to get a bigger bang for the buck on what they produce naturally as well.  Why?  Because some folks have more receptors for these compounds and a small amount yields big results.  If you’ve got the genes, and high natural levels, that&#8217;s an advantage without adding drugs over those with lesser amounts.  </p>
<p>Leveling the playing field by reducing the influence of drugs seems to be the goal for many posters.  But where do you stop in trying to level the playing field?     </p>
<p>But even without drugs the field may not be as level as we’d like to think.    It misses part of the picture to think that in a perfect world without performance enhancing drugs talent, skill, dedication, and training are the only factors determining performance.   Drugs, whether natural or injected/taken play a significant role in sports performance and always will as will variations in genetics.   </p>
<p>How far do we want to go to “level the playing field”?  Clearly, the extreme is easy to single out and take to task.  But if we examine what appears to be the goal&#8211;the level playing field untainted by any kind of drugs&#8211;the issue becomes a bit more complex.</p>
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		<title>By: Rolfe</title>
		<link>http://gubernatrix.co.uk/2009/08/performance-enhancing-drugs/comment-page-1/#comment-9038</link>
		<dc:creator>Rolfe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:24:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gubernatrix.co.uk/?p=748#comment-9038</guid>
		<description>Well, some like to make excuses while other just say plain no to cheating. I say cheating becouse by definition steroids and use of other illegal &quot;performance enhancing drugs&quot; by definition is cheating. If it hurts or provoces some of the people here, I am sorry, but the message on all levels of sports is very clear and use of these substances. 

I disagree strongly that the same people would be winners even if they did not use drugs. There is no substance to that claim. At the top level of the large sports it is all about the right training in the right amounts, motivation, diet and some genetics. Those who use illegal performance enhancing drugs try to do a shortcut outside that route to achieve their goals. It is symptomatic for our society but still the wrong thing to do on all levels. I dont doubt that those who use these substances work hard on their training, but if they were winners they would not need to use these substances to win or reach their goals. 

The right thing for anybody who witness use of illegal performance enhancing drugs is to inform WADA through your national anti-doping organization.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, some like to make excuses while other just say plain no to cheating. I say cheating becouse by definition steroids and use of other illegal &#8220;performance enhancing drugs&#8221; by definition is cheating. If it hurts or provoces some of the people here, I am sorry, but the message on all levels of sports is very clear and use of these substances. </p>
<p>I disagree strongly that the same people would be winners even if they did not use drugs. There is no substance to that claim. At the top level of the large sports it is all about the right training in the right amounts, motivation, diet and some genetics. Those who use illegal performance enhancing drugs try to do a shortcut outside that route to achieve their goals. It is symptomatic for our society but still the wrong thing to do on all levels. I dont doubt that those who use these substances work hard on their training, but if they were winners they would not need to use these substances to win or reach their goals. </p>
<p>The right thing for anybody who witness use of illegal performance enhancing drugs is to inform WADA through your national anti-doping organization.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://gubernatrix.co.uk/2009/08/performance-enhancing-drugs/comment-page-1/#comment-8987</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:14:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gubernatrix.co.uk/?p=748#comment-8987</guid>
		<description>Do we all respect the achievements of Mr Olympia? Of course, even if you are not a bodybuilding fan you can respect the athlete. The dedication required is a testament to the athletes ability to sustain hardship, lack of social life, neglect of loved ones, the planning of the smallest details of programming &amp; nutrition, supplementation and rest. All these are foundations that elite athletic ability are built from. Drug use does not give the athlete those abilities, you must have that drive in the first place, and the genetics and skill/ability to achieve in your chosen sport/arena, no amount of drug use will replace that.

Also don&#039;t just blame the player! The pressure from sponsors etc and most importantly the pressure from the public, if you paid £3000 pounds to go and see the Olympics in Beijing you want to see World records, you want to see freakish athletic ability the human body pushed to its limits not a 12 sec 100m or a 100kg C&amp;J you want to see awesome not normal. The same with Bodybuilding, you wouldn’t want to pay £250 to go to the Mr Olympia final to see twenty 150-200 pound guys in their pants!!! You want to see 300 pound plus freaks in their pants and that is the nature of the armchair sports fan, they want freaks not normal, we can go to any athletics track for that.

Steroids DO NOT make the champion it is still the individuals drive and talent that achieves the win………….. If steroids were the wonder drug that many naive people think they are then we would all be Olympic/World champions/Mr Olympia.

I have been around people all my training life who take steroids, from track &amp; field - Bodybuilding - Olympic lifting - Rugby and cosmetic and the list could go on. Does that make them cheats? In my eyes NO, it is the nature of the world we live in and whether you want to believe it or not the majority of athletes of what ever discipline are taking something at the highest levels if they are winning or achieving good results, if they are not then they are not competitive and will never win or get close.

All things being equal, and that there were no such things as steroids, the same people would still be champions because of all of their other abilities and drive and determination.

It just shows how screwed this world is when we think its normal now to chop ourselves up for appearance, perform gastric bypass on kids, smoke, drink, dish out anti-depressants because the dog died. Its OK to have a beta blocker if I am nervous prior to a job interview, but if I want to improve my athletic ability…ooooh that’s cheating.

Steroids a part and parcel of sports face it, the testing procedures are a joke, tip offs etc. There is far too much money involved in high &amp; elite level sports for them to EVER stamp out drug use and that is fact!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do we all respect the achievements of Mr Olympia? Of course, even if you are not a bodybuilding fan you can respect the athlete. The dedication required is a testament to the athletes ability to sustain hardship, lack of social life, neglect of loved ones, the planning of the smallest details of programming &amp; nutrition, supplementation and rest. All these are foundations that elite athletic ability are built from. Drug use does not give the athlete those abilities, you must have that drive in the first place, and the genetics and skill/ability to achieve in your chosen sport/arena, no amount of drug use will replace that.</p>
<p>Also don&#8217;t just blame the player! The pressure from sponsors etc and most importantly the pressure from the public, if you paid £3000 pounds to go and see the Olympics in Beijing you want to see World records, you want to see freakish athletic ability the human body pushed to its limits not a 12 sec 100m or a 100kg C&amp;J you want to see awesome not normal. The same with Bodybuilding, you wouldn’t want to pay £250 to go to the Mr Olympia final to see twenty 150-200 pound guys in their pants!!! You want to see 300 pound plus freaks in their pants and that is the nature of the armchair sports fan, they want freaks not normal, we can go to any athletics track for that.</p>
<p>Steroids DO NOT make the champion it is still the individuals drive and talent that achieves the win………….. If steroids were the wonder drug that many naive people think they are then we would all be Olympic/World champions/Mr Olympia.</p>
<p>I have been around people all my training life who take steroids, from track &amp; field &#8211; Bodybuilding &#8211; Olympic lifting &#8211; Rugby and cosmetic and the list could go on. Does that make them cheats? In my eyes NO, it is the nature of the world we live in and whether you want to believe it or not the majority of athletes of what ever discipline are taking something at the highest levels if they are winning or achieving good results, if they are not then they are not competitive and will never win or get close.</p>
<p>All things being equal, and that there were no such things as steroids, the same people would still be champions because of all of their other abilities and drive and determination.</p>
<p>It just shows how screwed this world is when we think its normal now to chop ourselves up for appearance, perform gastric bypass on kids, smoke, drink, dish out anti-depressants because the dog died. Its OK to have a beta blocker if I am nervous prior to a job interview, but if I want to improve my athletic ability…ooooh that’s cheating.</p>
<p>Steroids a part and parcel of sports face it, the testing procedures are a joke, tip offs etc. There is far too much money involved in high &amp; elite level sports for them to EVER stamp out drug use and that is fact!</p>
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		<title>By: gubernatrix</title>
		<link>http://gubernatrix.co.uk/2009/08/performance-enhancing-drugs/comment-page-1/#comment-8969</link>
		<dc:creator>gubernatrix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:02:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gubernatrix.co.uk/?p=748#comment-8969</guid>
		<description>Yes Lieke, it&#039;s been an interesting discussion so far and hasn&#039;t turned out quite how I expected....I love it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Lieke, it&#8217;s been an interesting discussion so far and hasn&#8217;t turned out quite how I expected&#8230;.I love it!</p>
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		<title>By: Andy C</title>
		<link>http://gubernatrix.co.uk/2009/08/performance-enhancing-drugs/comment-page-1/#comment-8968</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 19:59:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gubernatrix.co.uk/?p=748#comment-8968</guid>
		<description>not saying we should allow it as a matter of course but you will never rid sports of drugs.  as long as there is competition there will be drugs and people using them.  Some people think they are smarter than the system.

Congratulations to your sister BTW rolfe.  a great feet!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>not saying we should allow it as a matter of course but you will never rid sports of drugs.  as long as there is competition there will be drugs and people using them.  Some people think they are smarter than the system.</p>
<p>Congratulations to your sister BTW rolfe.  a great feet!</p>
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		<title>By: Lieke</title>
		<link>http://gubernatrix.co.uk/2009/08/performance-enhancing-drugs/comment-page-1/#comment-8967</link>
		<dc:creator>Lieke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 19:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gubernatrix.co.uk/?p=748#comment-8967</guid>
		<description>Rolfe&#039;s perception of how sports should be is very valid. And laudable. No question. I do believe that the right training with the right person will produce the results of Rolfe&#039;s sister (wow, by the way).

But sorry to say, sports and athletics are not moral any more: they&#039;ve become big business. Furthermore, apart from the glory, in many countries where status and/or financial/career succes later in life (after the sports career has ended) are dependent on sport&#039;s succes, you will use if you want to give yourself a future (shining example: Greek Ekaterina Thanou, whom I personally saw growing into the female Hulk during 4 months of training in 2003). It&#039;s supposedly the easy option that will give you extra performance and succes without training yourself by the right methods only.

If we could break open this notion by amassing real  scientific research results and SCIENTIFIC proof through monitoring of athletes and part legalisation of performance enhancing drugs, it could be worth it.

btw, very interesting topic and comments everyone! Gubernatrix, you really got us on a roll!

Lieke</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rolfe&#8217;s perception of how sports should be is very valid. And laudable. No question. I do believe that the right training with the right person will produce the results of Rolfe&#8217;s sister (wow, by the way).</p>
<p>But sorry to say, sports and athletics are not moral any more: they&#8217;ve become big business. Furthermore, apart from the glory, in many countries where status and/or financial/career succes later in life (after the sports career has ended) are dependent on sport&#8217;s succes, you will use if you want to give yourself a future (shining example: Greek Ekaterina Thanou, whom I personally saw growing into the female Hulk during 4 months of training in 2003). It&#8217;s supposedly the easy option that will give you extra performance and succes without training yourself by the right methods only.</p>
<p>If we could break open this notion by amassing real  scientific research results and SCIENTIFIC proof through monitoring of athletes and part legalisation of performance enhancing drugs, it could be worth it.</p>
<p>btw, very interesting topic and comments everyone! Gubernatrix, you really got us on a roll!</p>
<p>Lieke</p>
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		<title>By: Rolfe</title>
		<link>http://gubernatrix.co.uk/2009/08/performance-enhancing-drugs/comment-page-1/#comment-8965</link>
		<dc:creator>Rolfe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:23:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gubernatrix.co.uk/?p=748#comment-8965</guid>
		<description>I have been involved and an observer to several olympic careers both through family and friends. My own sister peaked with a silver medal at the worlds in female wrestling &quot;back then&quot;. To claim that there is widespread use of steroids in developed countries is against all my experience. Certain countries have &quot;anti doping agencies&quot; that are more lax than others, but I know that cheating the agencies are harder and harder. To say that international rugby players are all on steroids off season is a big claim. That means the national doping agency dont do their job, which dont justify any use of performance enhancing drugs.

It is a funny moral perception of sports when we want to allow cheating becouse somebody else cheats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been involved and an observer to several olympic careers both through family and friends. My own sister peaked with a silver medal at the worlds in female wrestling &#8220;back then&#8221;. To claim that there is widespread use of steroids in developed countries is against all my experience. Certain countries have &#8220;anti doping agencies&#8221; that are more lax than others, but I know that cheating the agencies are harder and harder. To say that international rugby players are all on steroids off season is a big claim. That means the national doping agency dont do their job, which dont justify any use of performance enhancing drugs.</p>
<p>It is a funny moral perception of sports when we want to allow cheating becouse somebody else cheats.</p>
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